00;00;00;10 - 00;00;24;17 Becky Odom-Bartel We are reacting to things because they're going so fast, but it's good to have people like that that are still like, wait a minute, now we have this tool. How are we really going to use it? Because not all of us, you know, can see where it's going at all times. I can tell you about neural networks. I can tell you about deep learning. I can tell you about all of that stuff. But how are you using it in your English class and how you're using it? And you're in the prodigy classes. Like, that's something I could have never envisioned. 00;00;24;19 - 00;00;40;07 Molly Buckley-Marudas Welcome to Chalk Talk with CLEteaching. We're coming to you live from Cleveland State University. I am Molly Buckley-Marudas, co-host of Chalk Talk and Associate Professor of Adolescent and Young Adult Literacy and the Levin College of Public Affairs and Education. 00;00;40;10 - 00;01;00;04 Shelley Rose And I'm Shelly Rose, Associate Professor of History and Women's and Gender Studies in the College of Arts Sciences at Cleveland State University. Chalk Talk is a production of the Cleveland Teaching Collaborative. We founded the collaborative in May 2020, and it is now an award winning working group for research, reflection and support for pre-kindergarten through higher education instructors in Northeast Ohio. 00;01;00;07 - 00;01;11;05 Molly Buckley-Marudas In this episode, Chalk Talk Straight Talk about Artificial Intelligence. We sit down with three guests to discuss their experiences in the classroom around A.I. 00;01;11;08 - 00;01;31;22 Shelley Rose Today's guests are Melissa Clark, Visiting Assistant Professor of Anthropology and AI Champion for the CSU Tech Hub at Cleveland State University; Becky Odom-Bartel Assistant Professor of Computer Science Education at Cleveland State University, and Charles Ellenbogen, an English teacher and AVID Coordinator at John Adams College and Career Academy. 00;01;31;25 - 00;01;37;00 Molly Buckley-Marudas You're going to love this conversation. 00;01;37;03 - 00;02;00;09 Shelley Rose Thank you so much for joining us today. We look forward to talking the chalk with you. For our first questions, we would love for each of you to share with us the time, or if there is a specific moment or an experience that led you to using or thinking about AI tools. whatever you think. How did you get into artificial intelligence or get introduced to it? And we'll start with Melissa. 00;02;00;12 - 00;02;56;18 Melissa Clark Okay. Yes, I remember it pretty distinctly, because it was over winter break of last year, I started seeing a bunch of stuff about it online. I belong to a couple, like teaching Facebook communities. And then, some of my friends were, complaining about AI, and I was like, I have no idea what this is. I don't have time to learn a new thing. I am trying to master TikTok and I can't figure it out. So, like, how am I going to possibly have space in my brain for another thing? And then, and one of my group chats, one of my friends said, oh, well, I actually use it, to help me manage my ADHD because she was finishing her PhD dissertation at the time. And that got me really curious, because I'm not a neuro spicy individual at all. And I wasn't quite sure how that would work. And so then I kind of like started exploring that. So that's, that's how I got started in it. I was just curious and a little bit scared. 00;02;56;20 - 00;03;00;02 Molly Buckley-Marudas Thanks, Charles or Becky? How about you? 00;03;00;05 - 00;04;12;18 Becky Odom-Bartel So I actually, I was, I would say I was almost forced into learning about AI, but I learned about AI about a decade ago. So in my, graduate program, we were learning about deep learning. Geoffrey Hinton, who is the, grandfather of deep learning in neural networks. We were just seeing what was coming out, in, in, in the use of these algorithms and Google and DeepMind and, and all that kind of stuff. So my background in AI has, has spanned over a decade. Just because that is that's my area. I actually I remember and I would just thought about this, I can't believe I'm this old at this point. But I remember, eight years ago when I was teaching my CS students, and in Alabama, I was in Alabama at the time, and I remember showing them a video about how we had just gotten DeepMind to recognize cats. And I was super excited, and I was like, we we we been at YouTube all day long. And that's what it figured out what cats were. And I was just like. This is awesome. and and now here we are. And it's just it's grown like it was in its infancy back eight years ago. And now it's like literally a teenager talking back. So, it's really neat to see. 00;04;12;21 - 00;06;04;19 Charles Ellenbogen Around the time I was in this first collaborative, I was also in another, collaborative with a global exchange project, and they're dedicated towards, international teaching partnerships and the one I participated then, in then as a teacher was with teachers from Iraq and Jordan. And we just talked about, what teaching has in common across cultures and what it doesn't. and we all had to develop the lesson that we could deliver using the digital platform platform, and I've stayed working with them for several years. And then this summer they said they wanted to try an AI project, and I was apprehensive. I mean, I had been reading about it in the news and the fears of it. And I have friends who are striking, you know, because they're actors and concerned about it that way. But I was willing to, to try to jump in. And so the students developed books using, an AI program about food security issues, in which they're, asked to investigate food security issues in different cultures and how different organizations respond to it. And so intrigued by it, I put in a grant for a teaching artist to come. In fact, a teaching artist is going to come work with the students on dystopian comics because our last unit is World's End. And as everyone knows, whenever you ask for students to do art, they say, I can't draw or can’t whatever. And so those who don't wish to draw are going to be asked to use AI to create their dystopian comic, which has a kind of level of irony to it. I am aware, but at least it will get more students involved in it and, engaged in the questions of how it can be, useful as a, as a tool rather than as an instrument for cheating. 00;06;04;22 - 00;06;19;20 Molly Buckley-Marudas I think I'd be curious. It's helpful to hear that specific example with the dystopian writing that the students are doing, but are there any other examples that you've either seen in your classes or you've worked on that would be helpful for the audience to hear about? 00;06;19;22 - 00;07;43;28 Becky Odom-Bartel So I have examples I'm not sure. so in, in my field, one of the things we focus on is obviously computer science and building programs. And so what we do in my classes is that AI has actually been able to help us sort of get rid of the monotony of programing. There is a lot of repetition and trying to build basic programs and re, reinstitute new algorithms for programs and things of that nature. And AI is actually I mean, that was one of the reasons we, we really started using AI years ago was so that we could get to that state where we weren't having to do that kind of stuff, and we could really focus on the, the algorithms and the efficiency and complexity that humans are really good at. and give, you know, what machines are really good at, which is math and processing really fast. Those tools. And so in my classes, a lot of times we actually use AI, depending on, you know, which, which program that they choose to use, whether it's that, you know, Chat or Bing or whatever's out there now, and they actually do ask the program, they ask the, AI's to build small programs, and then we take those programs and we we add to them, we make them more efficient. We make them to where other people can understand them, and we make them to where we can actually incorporate them into other, other programs and operating systems. So, yeah. 00;07;44;01 - 00;07;47;21 Molly Buckley-Marudas Wow. Fascinating. Thanks, Becky. 00;07;47;23 - 00;09;17;27 Melissa Clark Yeah. And this is the first semester that I've, built it into my lessons. I'm going on leave, so I don't know what the output the final product is going to look like. But for my students, they have to critique and, write a report on an ethnography. And, they, I've kind of taught them how to use it as a brainstorming tool to kind of ask it questions and like, I'll give them prompts, which has been a fun challenge for me to, like, kind of make my assessments more authentic, to try to keep up and, you know, not just get lazy about it. But then to have them, if something's unclear, to have them, ask AI, like, can you break this down for me or can you, you know, have a conversation with it, so that they can write better answers. And then on the other side, I've also been using it to help me in my own teaching as a tool, especially in our discussion classes where we get, like, a really wide range of student experiences and identities because Cleveland State is so diverse and I never want to be insensitive to anybody and, make them feel that their contributions aren't valued in the classroom. So sometimes, before a heavy discussion, perhaps one about like, race or religion or something like that, I'll ask AI to generate some potential student comments and questions so that I can go in prepared with, answers ahead of time, or at least have thought about, you know, what they might say. 00;09;18;00 - 00;09;18;26 Molly Buckley-Marudas And it's been useful. 00;09;18;27 - 00;09;20;04 Becky Odom-Bartel Oh, it's been extremely useful. 00;09;20;04 - 00;09;21;24 Melissa Clark Yeah, yeah. 00;09;21;27 - 00;10;20;23 Shelley Rose That's amazing. Thank you all for sharing. I think one of the things that I want us to to discuss is, you know, like Melissa said and like December 22nd, January 2023, there was a lot of excitement about large language models, right, because of ChatGPT and everybody who wasn't already in the in the know, like Becky, got really excited and a little worried about AI. And so I'm wondering, if you can talk a little bit about the potential that you see for these this new kind of phase of artificial intelligence tools for education and, both the potential and, you know, the anxiety or the challenges that maybe you found in your own teaching or with your own students or your colleagues. (Right?) that we can kind of go over because I think it's it's a tricky slope. I don't want to be afraid of AI. Right? I don't want my students to be afraid of AI. But what, what do we do with the challenges that are there? 00;10;21;00 - 00;10;32;08 Charles Ellenbogen I know a couple of things come to mind. One is, one is the fear. Yeah. And so even to get a program that was unblocked in the school district was was a challenge. 00;10;32;09 - 00;10;33;17 Shelley Rose What did you end up with? 00;10;33;19 - 00;11;25;23 Charles Ellenbogen we did use the the Bing the model. And, you know, I was able to communicate with the district and ask them to unblock it for a duration of time, so that that's about fear. And also it's about training, right? I mean, why aren't I seeing options to for professional development about how to use AI in the classroom? The only reactions we've seen so far are tools for how to catch people using it improperly. You know, it's here and and I think at least at the high school level, the windows still open to introduce it in a productive way. And so I would like someone more in the know to say, here are some sessions for teachers in various disciplines about how you might use it. And maybe one day on, you know, how to teach students how to be cautious with it, and the ethics involved in it. 00;11;25;26 - 00;13;46;16 Becky Odom-Bartel I always laugh because, every time a new technology comes out, we always have this sort sort of moment of fear and then moment of acceptance, and then a moment of like, okay, that's how we're going to use it. And so going back and reflecting on me as a computer scientist, I think, oh my gosh, I fortunately I never had to, program on, on dot cards or I never had to actually program on Univac systems or any of that nature, which is where you, like, feed the tape in and it reads it, and then it prints it out and. Right, right. You see there when you go up to the Disney World, ride, you can see it, but, none of my students understand that either. And, we, we keep going at this rate. There's where we're trying to find these things that are better for us, helpful for us. The the level of programing that we have now to even have created AI came after years and years of like innovation in programing languages and, and processors and transistors and all of that kind of stuff. And so it was inevitable we were going to get here. But now we're scared again because what what is that going to take away from, from us? And how are how what is that going to take away on our new innovations. And so what I try to teach my students is, is that I'm not trying to figure out that you understand how to write a variable or how to create basic structures of programing languages. What I'm trying to understand is that you have enough complex thinking to be able to take this and create something new with it, and so AI it's just another tool, just like any other pencil. It's it's there to help us grow faster and farther. It's not there to, you know, keep us from not learning. And then I think that's the problem that we have right now is that we need to reassess how what we expect our students to learn, how we expect our students to learn. I mean, we're a seek and find generation right there. There is no more. You go and you have to, like, actually produce this information. You go to the internet to figure out all the ways to use, you know, I'm, I'm cooking. I'm hungry. So I'm cooking is on my brain. How how you how you use, cumin and in in your in your dishes and stuff. And so we're kind of that way as well in our programing as well. We, we seek and find what is working and what is not working. And we advance on that. 00;13;46;16 - 00;14;22;02 Charles Ellenbogen Kind of your, your comments both this one and the last one, make me think about a colleague of mine who spent some of his spring break at a Stem camp for young children, and he said, the, the curriculum was not age appropriate and that the students they reported finding coding boring, as you just said, could do you envision use finding ways to use AI with ten year olds, seven year olds in the classroom? 00;14;22;02 - 00;15;38;29 Becky Odom-Bartel Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I mean, and that that's a whole nother can of worms that you just opened up about, you know, programing and when we should be teaching actual programing and block coding and everything to students and when, when it's ready to, to to give that, exposure to them. But I absolutely see it as a way and maybe not to the extent that we use it, maybe not to the extent they understand AI and deep learning and neural networks and actually the different types of generative AI. But I absolutely see it as a way that we can start using it. and I think one of the things too, about individuals is that we don't realize AI has been around for decades. We have been using it. We just didn't realize that's what it was. And now it's just it's made we we, we call it like exponential growth in computer science. And we also call it like, we like to call it, more of the same is not enough, because what happens is, is we get so desensitized to the new technology that we see, and then all of a sudden we have this massive change. We act like it's coming out of nowhere. And it hasn't. It actually has not come out of nowhere. It's been around for a long time. We're just seeing it in a new way. So. 00;15;38;29 - 00;16;46;18 Charles Ellenbogen Yeah, the issue of becoming desensitized struck me when I was asking students to make their accounts for the the the Bing program. I can't find the pattern, but they're very inconsistent about when they're concerned about their privacy and when they're not. And and so here I was asking to make this account. And because it, I think it had AI attached to it, they were concerned about like who am I telling this information to. What are the, you know, where are they going to do with it. So I do think, some amount of myth busting is an order and some amount of rethinking. I, I was teaching 1984 once and a student raised that just she said, you know, I'm tired of the trope that new technology equals bad. And as someone who's cautious about technology, that was useful for me to hear right to to shift my thinking from, that it that it's dangerous or problematic to. But it's how we how we use it. It's here and it's a tool and. 00;16;46;24 - 00;17;47;00 Becky Odom-Bartel But we. Still need that. I mean, you look at the way that technology has advanced over the last, you know, several years, decades, centuries. We usually have a buffer. It's the car was created, but, you know, it took a century before the, like, the electric car things. Right? But things are speeding up really, really fast. And I think that's one of the things that a society we are reacting to it more than we are proactive to it. And that is unfortunately, the moment computer science got on the board, it was react. It's a it's a reactive move. We are reacting to things because they're going so fast. So yeah, we have to think. But it's good to have people like that that are still like, wait a minute, now we have this tool, how are we really going to use it? Because not all of us, you know, can see where it's going at all times. I can tell you about neural networks. I can tell you about deep learning. I can tell you about all of that stuff. But how are you using it in your English class and how you using it and your anthropology classes? Like, that's something I could have never envisioned. Right. So it's a. Yeah. 00;17;47;03 - 00;17;59;08 Melissa Clark I think too, we need to like, maybe help guide some of our students to rethink how they think about learning, because I think, you know, I always open my classes with, like, back when colleges were invented in the 17 or 18 hundreds. 00;17;59;12 - 00;18;02;17 Becky Odom-Bartel Right. This makes. Sense. It's like John. Yeah. 00;18;02;19 - 00;19;21;09 Melissa Clark And like one guy at the front of the room, and he has all the knowledge and he's giving it to you guys. but yeah. And then so they come to class and they expect to like, hear from the professor who's the expert. And then the professor lectures and they take notes. But like, I mean, I'm sure this is the same for all fields, like in anthropology, like the stuff that they're discovering on, like, hominin fossils. I can't keep up with it. Like, whatever I tell them this year is going to be probably different than what they find out next year. So I tell them that, like, my goal as an educator is to make them able to critically think and evaluate information that's presented to them. And then the second part of that is that, they're often worried that AI is going to make everybody stupid because there's this idea that, we have to in order to be smart, right? And have college education, you have to have all this information stored inside your brain. But actually the human brain is getting smaller and has over like the last 12,000 years since we've invented writing. And I think AI is just a trajectory of that where we have all this cognitive offloading, where we don't have to have individuals who are an expert in everything anymore. We can, we kind of have like a collective knowledge base. And that's more important for the human race then, than one person holding all the information. 00;19;21;11 - 00;19;55;04 Becky Odom-Bartel My students, when they come into my beginning programing class, I think I have like this disclaimer. And then I'm like, if I knew everything about computer science, I would be living on an island, retired by now. My goal is that by the time you get out of this class and your full four years here, you know more than me. Like that is my goal. And so I think that sets the stage for them. They're like, oh, wait a minute. You know, she knows that she's she's not I'm not the expert. I can't be the expert because of that. My cognitive I mean I've got two kids already. I, my, my load is. You know, on their. 00;19;55;07 - 00;20;51;03 Charles Ellenbogen So are you, you can, if you can cut this if this is not, relevant, a friend who, well, Muslim Madani, who's now in Canada sent me, a message for school boards in Ontario have sued Facebook, TikTok, Snapchat and Instagram, claiming that they've rewired student brains and that they have the schools have to deal with the consequences, and that these four giants should do something to help that project. And so when you're talking about fear, I, I think you're seeing it writ large there. but I'd also be curious, since this seems to be your wheelhouse. I mean, do you think I will, you know, rewire how children think I hate. 00;20;51;03 - 00;21;47;12 Becky Odom-Bartel I hate to say yes or no there. Because, again, I am not the expert on on all of that, but, I, I is going to I is going to change learning and learning behaviors. Absolutely over the next decade. you can imagine the phone has changed, like, you know, how we learn and do and exactly how you were talking about with, with, with just being able to not have to have everything in your brain, but being able to offload that, and being able to focus on other things, a little bit more intensively. So, yeah, it's going to change a lot of that over the next couple of years. But I guess then my question back is, why are we afraid of that? Like. That could really. Be something that could create some amazing new inventions because we're not having to worry about this other stuff that we can offload on, on, on an AI algorithm or something. 00;21;47;12 - 00;21;51;02 Charles Ellenbogen I think it becomes important for teacher training programs. 00;21;51;04 - 00;21;52;07 Becky Odom-Bartel Right? Right. Yeah. 00;21;52;09 - 00;21;59;11 Charles Ellenbogen To be ahead of this curve. Right. And to say you're going to be dealing with these kinds of children who've had this kind of exposure. And. 00;21;59;13 - 00;22;30;20 Becky Odom-Bartel Yeah, but then it goes back to what you were saying with your students about they feel like that that will make everybody dumb or won't make it. We will have no more smart people. And it's interesting. It's what do we what do we think is smart then? Because if you think the only way you can be smart is by regurgitating this information that you read out of a book, then that's I mean, that's kind of what AI is doing right now. So just redefining what is smart and what is, capable and why we are humans are like complexity of our brains. 00;22;30;26 - 00;23;06;23 Melissa Clark Yeah. And I think that's really important at Cleveland State, especially here in Cleveland, and more generally, because, students often come in with this idea of like what smartness and intelligence is and they don't see themselves as often having any, any type of, basically the I don't want to say that they don't see their experiences and their own intelligence as valuable because it's not held up in the same esteem as like a university professor. But it's like you have a this different kind of intelligence and this is important. 00;23;07;00 - 00;23;09;22 Charles Ellenbogen Well episode connection, that's what Weipa is about. 00;23;09;22 - 00;23;10;26 Becky Odom-Bartel Yeah. Right. 00;23;10;28 - 00;23;15;22 Molly Buckley-Marudas Yes I mean that. Yeah definitely the youth agency. 00;23;15;24 - 00;23;17;05 Becky Odom-Bartel 00;23;17;07 - 00;23;52;08 Shelley Rose Well and this is been a big conversation especially at Cleveland State. But other places as well. Like when we're having, we're trying to attract students and convey to them the value of a college and university education. What does that look like. Where's the value. It's not necessarily regurgitating the facts anymore, right? Maybe it never was I don't know. but like when we were thinking about redoing our core curriculum, the focus is on skill, because that's what, you know, like Melissa said, I want you to become critical thinkers. I want you to take those skills beyond the classroom because the information may change. Right? 00;23;52;11 - 00;23;52;28 Becky Odom-Bartel I'm excited. 00;23;52;28 - 00;24;21;07 Molly Buckley-Marudas Yeah. Like just I think of increasing the inputs, you know, like that, being able to get more and more information, maybe without as much labor or memorization, but then making those connections and the youth agency. So recognizing that any one brain or person brings their experience or what they did yesterday, or what their family background, whatever it might be, and then make new kinds of connections feels really, I don't know. 00;24;21;07 - 00;24;23;13 Molly Buckley-Marudas That does feel exciting and promising. 00;24;23;13 - 00;24;37;20 Becky Odom-Bartel And honestly, I just gives me more work to do because then all the other work that I was able to get done quicker. Now I just put my put more on my plate and then I'm like, oh, well, now I have time to do this. And so then I just keep and you know, I'm never going to not be busy. So business. Is helping. 00;24;37;20 - 00;25;11;17 Molly Buckley-Marudas Yeah, yeah. It's I was curious, I think I know we're probably approaching the end, but it goes back to a little bit of something all of you said. And Charles, your comment about schools of education and what our role is for future teachers. So how did you end up learning, Melissa, you said you didn't want you had no room to learn anything else, but you obviously have. Charles, I know this probably wasn't what you were super excited, you know, to commit to, but now you're doing a really exciting project. What were the pieces and parts to figure it out? Who were your like? What resources did you rely on? 00;25;11;19 - 00;26;07;16 Charles Ellenbogen I can't remember which of the platform offered it, but one of those introduction to AI courses, and they talked about prompts and how to write a more or less effective prompt. and the just in general, the teaching practice of do something small before you try to do something large. So I, you know, tried with a small group of students to get them to make their accounts and do a fairly straightforward assignment to just build the confidence in the knowledge and in the process, you know, hasn't been every student all year. But I think that these two projects are ones that I'd be willing to, you know, consider moving on with. And, you know, as always, the goal is to try to find one more. And I also think the opportunities for speaking of ways, we already know, we learned differently, for using this across subjects, are endless. But, 00;26;07;18 - 00;26;10;21 Molly Buckley-Marudas It's learning along the way. Yeah. It's like. Yeah. 00;26;10;24 - 00;26;22;15 Charles Ellenbogen And I told the students that I was like, I'm not ahead of you here. We're going to figure this out together. And that's why I picked a small group and started together. 00;26;22;18 - 00;27;19;26 Melissa Clark I went to Reddit. To figure. Out what how people were using it and like, what the need was because I was initially, like I said, interested in how, people with diverse neuro types were using it and like how to get, students with perhaps like ADHD or, autistic and students with autism, how to like, help them succeed in the classroom by using this individualized teaching tool. So I just I spent like hours and hours and hours on Reddit in these different forums, like trying to figure out and like read what they were saying they needed and how I was addressing those needs. And then, taking that information back and talking to my students about it and then listening to what they had to say and how their needs matched up with those. So, like mostly just using my own students as a resource, to learn, but then also using other people, students that are that are talking to each other on the internet. 00;27;19;29 - 00;27;22;26 Molly Buckley-Marudas That's great. 00;27;22;29 - 00;27;36;22 Shelley Rose and I just wanted to mention that you wrote this up for the faculty learning community that Ccdc co-sponsored with the Center for Faculty Excellence. so we'll put those in the show notes. So everybody can see or read it. And deep dive things. 00;27;36;24 - 00;27;41;17 Charles Ellenbogen Never seen a read a deeper into what that looks like. 00;27;41;20 - 00;29;01;28 Becky Odom-Bartel I think when I first, here when I got here and then I came on, on, on the stage, I actually was really confused why people were asking me about it. I think that was because one thing they were they were asking me, well, how do you use AI? And again, I had not been in and since grad school. So I was like, what do you mean, use AI? That's that's the algorithm. And we've got to like there's all this like TensorFlow. There's all this stuff that I was thinking about and I thought, well, surely that's not what they're asking. So I got really, really confused. For the longest time, people kept asking me, you know, how do you use AI? What am I supposed to use it for? And I was just it's kind of one of those things where I was just processing and overload. and so I spent a lot of time sort of trying to figure out what resources are out there for people that want to use it as a tool, whereas instead of actually developing it. And one thing that I found, and we actually use here in Ohio, that Ohio toolkit that came out, so I ed ai edu org is a wonderful organization that has actually got teachers, computer scientist, and industry professionals that have actually come together to create lots of little kits and stuff for classrooms. So that I definitely wanted to shout out and say, please go there. because that is something that we're using here in the state. So yeah. 00;29;02;01 - 00;29;16;04 Molly Buckley-Marudas And we'll also flag that in the show notes too, for sure. Well, thank you all. Any final comments you want to make or something you would hope to share that you just haven't had a chance to share yet? Before we wrap up. 00;29;16;06 - 00;30;05;25 Becky Odom-Bartel I, I wanted to just just really quickly go back to that idea of, you know, we need to start thinking about what it is we are expecting our students to learn what we're assessing them on. So we need to go back to this. If if it if we are now wanting AI in the classrooms, let's figure out a better way to make sure our students are learning what they need to learn, or understanding and processing what they need to process. so it is a lot of work on teachers. I hate that, you know, it's kind of one of those things. It's like, all right, teachers, we know that you have a hard enough job as it is, but let's let's get back at it and redo all these assessments. But I feel like that we are at that point now where we start, we need to start really considering how we are making sure our students are learning what they need to learn to be a successful with this new tool. 00;30;05;28 - 00;30;33;24 Charles Ellenbogen I agree with all that and not all our students have computers, right? Right. Even though the district says it's 1 to 1. So we've got to make sure this isn't another opportunity for certain kinds of well, I'm going to say largely black, largely poor students to be left behind. Right. So going to make sure everybody has the resources, you know, the teachers get the training and that and the students have, you know, the tools they need. 00;30;33;26 - 00;31;21;01 Melissa Clark And I don't know if this is okay to say so. Maybe you can cut it if it's not. but I've been thinking about, faculty and teachers who are nervous that they are going to be completely replaced by I, but I think that if that was a realistic fear, then maybe it's time to, like, revisit, like your teaching methods or maybe shake up your lectures if you've been using the same one for like ten years. it's okay to try something a little bit different and think, is this the best way that I could be teaching it? If a computer could do it, surely if a computer could do it, then there's a way to improve it and use this as an opportunity to, improve your own teaching. 00;31;21;04 - 00;31;21;29 Becky Odom-Bartel We need that as a quote. 00;31;22;01 - 00;31;22;18 Molly Buckley-Marudas Yeah. 00;31;22;21 - 00;31;25;17 Becky Odom-Bartel Somewhere. I like that. 00;31;25;19 - 00;32;26;14 Charles Ellenbogen Yes. This is one of the questions about a book. And, new this field of McCord winner is Tremor by Teju Cole. And he writes a lot about music and arts and photography. And here I am holding a physical book, and I thought I would like to be experiencing this differently, because I would when he writes about the music, I want to hear the music he's talking about photography techniques. So something I who is it? Somebody said, you know, book is the best technology and I get that. And here is, you know, he's also writing in a, in a different sort of way. And what sort of experience could we create. They'll still use the word reader because I don't know what else a user sounds wrong, but for someone to, to approach a book that has that kind of ambition to it. 00;32;26;17 - 00;32;31;03 Molly Buckley-Marudas Yeah, a real multimodality. Right? 00;32;31;05 - 00;32;31;26 Becky Odom-Bartel That sounds fantastic. 00;32;31;29 - 00;32;37;22 Molly Buckley-Marudas I know. Yeah, yeah, the book is not always the best. Yeah. For that. 00;32;37;25 - 00;32;51;19 Charles Ellenbogen Considering what he was writing about, I mean I sat there with my phone next to me and I look up the picture, I look up the photo and I listen to the music for a few minutes. You know what if it hadn't been combined and to or just more easily accessible into one? 00;32;51;21 - 00;32;54;03 Becky Odom-Bartel Yeah. Yeah. 00;32;54;06 - 00;32;58;26 Molly Buckley-Marudas Absolutely. Well, thanks. Shelly. You want to, so you want to take it from here? Chalk and Roll? 00;32;59;00 - 00;33;01;25 Molly Buckley-Marudas I guess we should. Chalk and Roll. 00;33;01;28 - 00;33;03;29 Becky Odom-Bartel Such good puns. 00;33;04;03 - 00;33;05;29 Charles Ellenbogen I don't know, how long did it take to come up with that? 00;33;05;29 - 00;33;06;25 Becky Odom-Bartel I know right? 00;33;06;27 - 00;33;14;00 Shelley Rose I don't know if that's Marilyn. Credit goes to our RA. So are we ready to Chalk and Roll? 00;33;14;03 - 00;33;14;25 Becky Odom-Bartel Let's do it. All right. 00;33;14;25 - 00;33;16;19 Charles Ellenbogen Yes. 00;33;16;21 - 00;33;21;23 Shelley Rose All right. I didn't say who was going first. Melissa, are you ready to Chalk and Roll? 00;33;21;26 - 00;33;25;07 Melissa Clark Yeah. Are one-word answers what you're looking for? Are you, like, okay, great. 00;33;25;14 - 00;33;26;05 Molly Buckley-Marudas Short answers. 00;33;26;11 - 00;33;26;15 Melissa Clark Okay. 00;33;26;15 - 00;33;31;20 Shelley Rose Short answers. so number one, what's your favorite spot in Cleveland or Northeast Ohio? 00;33;31;22 - 00;33;33;08 Melissa Clark Anywhere in the Metroparks. 00;33;33;10 - 00;33;34;07 Becky Odom-Bartel Ooh. 00;33;34;10 - 00;33;41;22 Shelley Rose Nice. Question two what's one podcast book or other media that you're loving right now? 00;33;41;24 - 00;33;48;22 Melissa Clark I really like the podcast Morbid because it makes me feel like I have friends in my room. 00;33;48;25 - 00;33;51;09 Shelley Rose What type of podcast is Morbid? 00;33;51;11 - 00;33;52;03 Becky Odom-Bartel Yeah, I know,. What’s morbid? 00;33;52;04 - 00;33;56;03 Melissa Clark It's a true crime podcast. But they're both really sassy. 00;33;56;05 - 00;33;57;07 Shelley Rose Nice! 00;33;57;09 - 00;33;59;23 Molly Buckley-Marudas You're in good company. True crime has been very popular. 00;33;59;23 - 00;34;08;26 Shelley Rose True crime has been popular on our Chalk and Roll. Excellent. And question three. What is a favorite resource or AI tool that you're really excited about right now? 00;34;08;28 - 00;34;13;25 Melissa Clark The AI tool, or resource would be my students. 00;34;13;28 - 00;34;15;14 Shelley Rose Oh nice. 00;34;15;16 - 00;34;18;15 Melissa Clark They know more about it than I do, and what they need is. 00;34;18;21 - 00;34;19;05 Shelley Rose Awesome. 00;34;19;05 - 00;34;26;06 Molly Buckley-Marudas All right. Thanks, Melissa. We'll go to Charles. So first, what's your favorite spot in Cleveland or Northeast Ohio? 00;34;26;09 - 00;34;27;29 Charles Ellenbogen At the Great Lakes Science Center. 00;34;28;01 - 00;34;34;25 Molly Buckley-Marudas All right. What's one podcast book or other media you're loving right now? 00;34;34;28 - 00;34;49;04 Charles Ellenbogen The Anisfield-Wolf Book Award winners just were announced. And so I always enjoy reading the selection. So, Tremor, by Teju Cole is the first, I'll pick up the poetry one next. There's non-fiction. I just enjoy what they choose. 00;34;49;07 - 00;35;04;27 Molly Buckley-Marudas That's great. Well, look, as far as another connection goes, Jeff Karam, his favorite spot is the award week for the Anisfield-Wolf. And lastly, what's your favorite resource or AI tool that you're excited about right now? 00;35;04;29 - 00;35;23;12 Charles Ellenbogen I guess I'm going to stick with the one that I've been using, because I feel like I have a basic foundation, and I'd just like to explore a little more. And and that's how I that's how I learn rather than gathering a whole bunch of tools, I'd like to get better at one. And, so, I'm going to stick with that. 00;35;23;15 - 00;35;25;19 Molly Buckley-Marudas Absolutely. Thanks, Charles. 00;35;25;21 - 00;35;27;24 Shelley Rose All right, Becky, are you ready to Chalk and Roll? 00;35;27;27 - 00;35;28;14 Becky Odom-Bartel I'm ready. 00;35;28;14 - 00;35;33;03 Shelley Rose All right. Question one, what's your favorite spot in Cleveland or Northeast Ohio? 00;35;33;05 - 00;35;41;02 Becky Odom-Bartel I've only been here two years. So I, I don't know yet. So I'm still learning. So I think I want to try out all these places that they're talking. So yeah. 00;35;41;09 - 00;35;46;29 Shelley Rose Awesome. Question two, what's one podcast book or other media that you're loving right now? 00;35;47;02 - 00;35;54;18 Becky Odom-Bartel So I belong to a book club with my computer science education group and we are reading Race After Technology. So... 00;35;54;19 - 00;35;55;13 Melissa Clark That is such a good book! 00;35;55;13 - 00;35;56;00 Becky Odom-Bartel Yes. 00;35;56;02 - 00;35;57;19 Melissa Clark That's the best, one of the best books I have ever read. 00;35;57;27 - 00;36;01;04 Becky Odom-Bartel So I just started it. So I'm really excited to to get into it. 00;36;01;04 - 00;36;02;28 Shelley Rose I'm so glad 00;36;03;01 - 00;36;03;25 Melissa Clark It’s fantastic. 00;36;03;26 - 00;36;06;28 Charles Ellenbogen Is it is it good for those of us who don't speak technology? 00;36;06;28 - 00;36;10;08 Becky Odom-Bartel Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. 00;36;10;10 - 00;36;13;09 Molly Buckley-Marudas & Shelley Rose Put that in the show notes. 00;36;13;12 - 00;36;19;05 Shelley Rose All right. And what is what is a favorite resource or AI tool that you're excited about right now? 00;36;19;07 - 00;36;45;19 Becky Odom-Bartel okay. This is really sad, but I, I love most all of the, the large language models just because I get to argue with somebody. and I'm, and there's no, there's no like, bad thing that'll happen. So like, I can't go home and argue with my children because then of course that's going to set the mood or I can't argue with my spouse because that's going to set the mood. So I just go to to ChatGPT and have an argument with it. And it's great. Now I've like processed my feelings. So... 00;36;45;22 - 00;36;47;12 Shelley Rose Nice. 00;36;47;14 - 00;36;50;10 Molly Buckley-Marudas You do this on the commute home? I'm like, should I try this? 00;36;50;15 - 00;37;00;19 Becky Odom-Bartel No, no, I do not do it on the commute home. But yes, I do. Right before I go home. And I'm like frustrated about something else, just like, okay, let's just get this out and make sure that I'm thinking correctly. 00;37;00;20 - 00;37;01;29 Charles Ellenbogen Like the Reddit deep drive. 00;37;02;01 - 00;37;03;21 Becky Odom-Bartel Yeah, exactly. We need that... 00;37;03;23 - 00;37;05;10 Molly Buckley-Marudas I love that. 00;37;05;13 - 00;37;05;26 Charles Ellenbogen I might try that. 00;37;05;26 - 00;37;16;15 Shelley Rose Very creative. Cool. And here I'm telling my students not to argue with the large language model. Right? And like, I don't think it's productive today. 00;37;16;17 - 00;37;18;27 Molly Buckley-Marudas It's like, I don’t know, therapy. 00;37;19;02 - 00;37;20;00 Becky Odom-Bartel Yeah. That is. 00;37;20;00 - 00;37;22;13 Melissa Clark Like it's like writing a diary and then lighting it on fire. 00;37;22;15 - 00;37;23;20 Becky Odom-Bartel Exactly! It’s a diary that talks back 00;37;23;21 - 00;37;29;11 Shelley Rose There you go. It talks back. Oh no, it's like Harry Potter. 00;37;29;14 - 00;37;42;07 Molly Buckley-Marudas Oh that's great. Thank you, Charles, Melissa and Becky for joining us today. And thank you, Chalk Talk listeners for joining us for this episode and for all the episodes this season. We hope you'll join us for Season Two. 00;37;42;09 - 00;38;00;18 Shelley Rose For links related to this episode and guest bios, visit the show notes at podcast.cleteaching.org. The Chalk Talk podcast is made possible by a grant funded by the Martha Holden Jennings Foundation. If you want to learn more about the Jennings Foundation or about the Cleveland Teaching Collaborative, please visit cleteaching.org. 00;38;00;20 - 00;38;05;12 Molly Buckley-Marudas Special thanks to our Chalk Talk team for Season One. 00;38;05;14 - 00;38;07;06 Molly Buckley-Marudas Molly Buckley-Marudas 00;38;07;09 - 00;38;08;17 Shelley Rose Shelley Rose. 00;38;08;19 - 00;38;09;25 Chris Rennison Chris Rennison. 00;38;09;27 - 00;38;11;06 Declan Malloy Declan Malloy. 00;38;11;08 - 00;38;12;24 Marilyn Orseno Marilyn Orseno. 00;38;12;27 - 00;38;15;05 Makialani Kanewa-Mariano Makialani Kanewa-Mariano. 00;38;15;07 - 00;38;17;15 Ryan Seibert Ryan Seibert. 00;38;17;17 - 00;38;20;19 Shelley Rose This episode of Chalk Talk is dedicated to the Clark family.